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Jennifer E. Thomas
j3nny3lf
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Waterfalls
It's almost like there are these periods where our relationship is smooth and steady, and then there are times when it's like standing on the edge of this gorgeous, wonderful waterfall and just letting yourself drop, knowing that there's a safe pool of water ready to catch you at bottom. You take the plunge and you're in wayyyy over your head, but oh man, it's exhilarating, it's breathtaking, it's just incredible and you feel better than you ever have before and the water is cool and refreshing and exactly what you needed.

Sam is my waterfall.

- LJ entry from 8/2005





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Jennifer E. Thomas [userpic]
And I repeat the question again:

Why is it okay to despise Christians but not okay if a Christian even hints at an opinion that atheism or another faith path isn't the ideal way to go?

Why is it that people think it's okay to wish death on large groups of people, including children, simply because those people are hateful and spite filled and espouse a belief system that most people find abhorrent, but if somebody else says for example, that atheists are headed for hell after death, they get reamed?

Why is it okay to make fun of Christians and accuse them of being ignorant thick headed fucktards, but if a Christian suggests that that accusation is misguided, the Christian is, once again, the one in the wrong?

If you are one of the people who espouse the "ZOMG ALL CHRISTIANS ARE EITHER FUCKING IDIOTS OR FUCKING ASSHOLES" rhetoric, kindly remove yourself from my f-list, because seriously? Why consider me a friend if you think I'm an idiot or an asshole? Why read me?

That is all.

Borderline symptom of the day: angryangry
Comments

I resent the subset of Christians who don't seem to understand the concept of "separation of church and state." The rest of y'all are cool.

I can't stand that crap either.

Okay, so who brought that on? hehe

Actually has been building for a while again, but a post in another LJ tipped me over the edge. :P

I don't think that about all Christians, just the apparent majority that want to shove it down my throat, even when I've said very politely "I not interested" or use their faith to allow them to hate others. That's really sad to me.. If you still want me to I'll un-friend you. *hugs*

Nonono. I want people who do the blanket ALL CHRISTIANS = MAJOR EVIL to go away.

I don't like the "shove it down your throat" sort of Christian (or any other faith or political ideology) either.

But I absolutely hate the mentality that just because somebody is Christian, they're hate filled nasty shitty jerkoffs. But yet those same people scream FOUL if anybody, particularly a Christian, says: "You know, you yourself may be wrong in what YOU believe". They demand respect, but refuse to give ANY respect in return.

Kind of like my son Andy, actually.

You, individually, are not an ignorant thick-headed fucktard. You use your faith to guide you on a path towards making the world a better, kinder place.

I reserve the right to rant and vilify the Fucktard denomination, though. :>

I hear ya. I simply cannot stand people like those you are referring to. They drive me absolutely crazy. I see plenty of atheists calling all Christians fucktards, evil, nasty, moronic, etc. *All* Christians.

OTOH, a few times, I've said, "Dear God, please please, save me from your followers". The "one true path" types infuriate me.

I have no idea how to respond to this without giving offense, yet part of me feels I must try.

I am very much in favor of evidence-based, empirical reasoning; faith, religious or otherwise, seems to me to invite being deceived, whether by malice or by simple inattention to detail. That is by no means certain--it's entirely possible that a person's faith is entirely pointed in the right direction--but I find it...incautious. Potentially quite dangerous.
And I DEFINITELY resent it when someone uses faith-based reasoning instead of fact-based reasoning to make the lives of others' lives less pleasant; as a lesbian, I've been on the receiving end of that, though thankfully not too often.

In no way would I ever single out christians, though they too will probably find my attitude toward religious faith rather insulting. It's got to be awfully difficult to be told that one is potentially courting disaster through inadequate fact-checking and not feel insulted; I get that. No insult is actually meant, but how in hell can that opinion be expressed without it coming off insultingly?

Yet the truth is that if religion were a purely personal thing, practiced with other believers only and leaving the rest of the world alone, I could probably let it go. I have my own quirks and worldviews that other people probably find bizarre or even repugnant, and far be it from me to deny other people their right and access to the transcendent or the numinous, however you like to take it. I might still think it's nutty, but I could let it go.
Alas, far too many religious folk seem to feel that the law ought to enforce their preferences, prejudices, and religious tenets, that the law ought to be rewritten to make everybody behave as if they believe, whether they do or not. For their own good.

And, to put it bluntly, them's fightin' words.

Truth to tell, I tend to paint religion with a fairly broad brush, and I know it. Can't really help it, though; with the number of times christianity alone has splintered or fractured or schismed (is that a word?) into different flavors, never mind the other religions, accurate speech would get so bogged down in minutiae that what needs saying would never get said.

So...to your questions:

1) I don't despise a christian, or anyone, if they're not making life more difficult for someone else. It's true that I may think less of faith chosen over reason and evidence, but not despise, nor will christianity be singled out in that regard.

2) I don't think ANY of that is okay. I wish everyone to leave everyone else alone; the only people who are fair game are those messing up the lives of others. And that includes atheists; while I may wish to convince folks that religion is incorrect, I don't think atheists should be allowed to ban religion, either. Limit religion's ability to interfere in the lives of non-believers, yes, but ban religion outright, no.

3) I've encountered FAR too much fact denying when those facts contradict faith, dogma, or religious history/text from ALL religious folks, be it evolution/creation, the age of the Earth, whatever. It's not necessarily right, but I get where the animosity comes from.

4) Not all christians, or even religious folks, are idiots or assholes. But when religion--which is faith-based and not proved with empirical evidence--is used to justify being really cruel to other people, well...it gets awfully difficult not to see religion itself as the problem, and do-nothing-about-it moderates as enablers for the fanatics. Is that fair? Maybe not. But, again, I understand it.

I've been having a lot of conversations like these on the Spore message boards; Spore's about evolution (kind of), so the topic's come up. It's right at the front of my mind, lately.
Looking over the entries on my LJ that have the "atheism" tag, I don't think I've been particularly antagonistic, so I HOPE I'm not one of the folks who inspired this entry of yours. My position, misconstrued or not, has always been one of tolerance which works both ways; we can find each other as nutty as we like s'long as we leave each other be when asked, yanno? I think that's pretty reasonable...

you said
Alas, far too many religious folk seem to feel that the law ought to enforce their preferences, prejudices, and religious tenets, that the law ought to be rewritten to make everybody behave as if they believe,

My questions is why is it ok for whatever group does it? It seems as though when a (insert group here that is non Christian) wants a law changed to suit their agenda Christians who oppose that view are labeled as hateful. Why is that?

While we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum in many cases, I agree 100% with this. I have often wondered the same thing. Why when Christians share a view they are being intolerant but when someone says something negative about us they are exercising their freedom of speech

Why is it okay to despise Christians but not okay if a Christian even hints at an opinion that atheism or another faith path isn't the ideal way to go?

Who says so? I reserve the right to mock Christians for their deluded lunacy, you sexy deluded loon, and I support their right to call me a closed-minded spirituaphobe, chewing on Hellbait. Man, fuck people who can't take criticsim.

Why is it that people think it's okay to wish death on large groups of people, including children, simply because those people are hateful and spite filled and espouse a belief system that most people find abhorrent, but if somebody else says for example, that atheists are headed for hell after death, they get reamed?

Pfff. We're already in Hell. Hell is living in a world full of religious nuts.

Why is it okay to make fun of Christians and accuse them of being ignorant thick headed fucktards, but if a Christian suggests that that accusation is misguided, the Christian is, once again, the one in the wrong?

Because people are assholes? You act as if this is a consensus, or something only atheists do. That's not true at all. Pretty much only Antitheist Atheists do that, just like hate-filled intolerance is something that only a handful of certain kinds of Christians do, knawmean?

If you are one of the people who espouse the "ZOMG ALL CHRISTIANS ARE EITHER FUCKING IDIOTS OR FUCKING ASSHOLES" rhetoric, kindly remove yourself from my f-list, because seriously? Why consider me a friend if you think I'm an idiot or an asshole? Why read me?

What about those of us that just think you're endearingly batshit?

Batshit is just fine, darlin' :)

Okay, to start off, I don't hate Christians. I hate people. I really don't feel the need to discriminate. ;)

But, seriously, for me it's a matter of self-identity. Those people who primarily identify themselves as "Christian" give me the heebie-jeebies. I am a whole person with many facets, and the thought of taking just one of those and presenting it as Me and all I am is whacked, in my book.

Sorry to say, but I don't think of you as a Christian. I think of you as Jenn. Jenn is a deeply spiritual person and the focus of that spiritualism happens to be Christ. This I can respect and deal with. But Jenn is also a writer, a poet, a diabetic, a wife, a mother, and (most important to me) my friend. None of these facets alone defines you. (Although that last one speaks to definite mental unbalance.)

And that's the source of the problem. Those for whom church and being Christian are everything *are* being ignorant as far as I'm concerned. They scare me because they seem to have lobotomized themselves into thinking only what they are told to think by their peers and pastor. They give all Christians a bad rap because they identify as nothing but Christian, and then go about spewing hate and intolerance in the name of their faith. Add in the fact that nothing makes headlines these days unless it's completely sensationalistic, and you have a recipe for much anti-Christian backlash by those who are specifically targeted by that loud, ignorant minority.

I try not to, but sometimes it's just easier to adopt a general wariness of all unknown Christians to avoid confrontation. There's a professor here on campus that I know by sight. We both work out at the gym in the mornings. He takes his bible to study while on the ellipticals. I avoid him because I irrationally fear him. Now, maybe he's a delightful man; he's certainly intelligent--I've read some campus news articles about his research. But when it comes down to it, his obvious Christianity makes me uncomfortable. Is that fair to him? Absolutely not. He shouldn't have to hide any more than I should.

Whose mental imbalance are we referring to here, dear? Mine for loving you? Or yours for loving me?

Tell you what! Let's split it even down the middle and be one totally crazy pair. :)